Tue 26 Aug 2008
Boycott Cider Press Review?
Posted by Tim under random riff-raff
I’ve actually never heard of them before, but they run a regular book prize — this year judged by Lucille Clifton, last year judged by Tony Hoagland, so obviously they’re willing to pay their judges.
As I’ve mentioned before in the comments on here, we’re running an essay in our fall newsletter by David Alpaugh about the impact all these book contests are having on poetry publishing, where the entry fees pay for the printing, so that the presses themselves have no investment whatsoever in their authors, no motive to help market the books, and no need to publish quality poetry in the first place. As David describes, we’re all so scared of the corruptions exposed by Foetry that we don’t notice the entire system has been corrupted. (Hmm…what other aspects of our culture might mirror that?)
There’s no better primer for that essay than this cautionary tale. Everyone planning on entering a contest should read this, even if it’s just entering the Rattle Poetry Prize. I can’t imagine what it would feel like to have this happen to my own book. And if you don’t know the press that you’re sending yours to, it could happen to you. Tony Hoagland’s name at the top isn’t verification enough. I wonder if he and Clifton are aware of this.
Like I said, I don’t know anything about Cider Press Review, and have only heard one side of the story. I’ve been looking around online and can’t find any independent confirmation of Brown’s claim that Cider Press has a history of unethical behavior. It’s worse than he-said-she-said, because so far only one of them is doing the talking.
So no, don’t boycott Cider Press Review. At least not yet. Maybe P&W will expose the whole story, as has been suggested. But still read the precautionary tale — whether genuine or apocryphal, it’s still worth thinking about.
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UPDATE: Thanks for pointing this out in the comments, Rachel: Lucille Clifton has now backed out as this year’s judge, according to the Cider Press website, “due to work load and scheduling conflicts.” Read into that what you will, but it’s certainly interesting to see.
And for the record, I’ve already confessed my love of Tony Hoagland here. I’ve never met him, but his poetry makes him seem like the kind of guy you’d like to have a beer with. (Hell, that’s enough of a platform to run for president.) Since there’s no hard evidence of wrongdoing, and the whole thing is just hearsay, I don’t know what the dissenters expect him to do — other than maybe not judge a Cider Press contest again, but he wasn’t going to judge twice anyway.
The lesson here has nothing to do with the individuals involved. Brown’s story is appropriately called “a cautionary tale” — it’s just something to think about when entering contests in general.
11 Responses to “ Boycott Cider Press Review? ”
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August 29th, 2008 at 4:54 pm[...] Stacy Lynn Brown/Cider Press story, which has generated thoughtful commentary here, here, here, here, here, here, and here) - not to mention the sheer numbers & probabilities mitigating against [...]
August 26th, 2008 at 8:12 am
most of the comments responding to Brown on her site are commiserating with her, and saluting her bravery in exposing this nonsense——
but none are slamming his honor the Hoagland who bops in to these contests and does his ten minute stint as “judge” and then scoots off with another tick on his resume, another notch on his reputation, who doesn’t give a damn if it’s a scam, he doesn’t care if the process is fair and the press treats its poets properly, all he cares about is getting that boost to his ego . . .
Hoagland is a Po-Biz whore who will obviously sell his ass out as a “judge” at every opportunity legitimate or ill- . . .
August 26th, 2008 at 8:23 am
if you’re going to condemn the presses, you must also damn the “judges” of these contests: they’re part of the scam . . . they don’t give a damn about what happens after they take their money and run . . . Hoagland is as much to blame here as Cider is.
August 26th, 2008 at 11:07 am
Maybe self-publication is the way to go? Didn’t Anna Akhmatova self-publish a book or two of poetry…not sure…and Robinson Jeffers…Bill Knott (hi Bill) is another example…
I self-published a book previously - it was wonderful to get an email from the purchaser, who said she carried it around with her in her purse (it was a little book).
I thought the whole point of entering a manuscript contest was that it gave you access to, ahem, “distribution channels” - you could get your book into bookstores you wouldn’t be able to otherwise…maybe with amazon.com it’s a moot (I had a typo there, “mute”) point…but if you win a manuscript contest, then you can apply for grants, right, or get invited to do readings, etc…
P.S. I’m not in academia myself. I get a big kick out of Foetry - it makes me laugh out loud (the ridiculousness of it all).
August 26th, 2008 at 11:19 am
You’re right, Bill — if Hoagland is aware of this situation, and remains silent, or even worse, continues to serve as a judge, then he’s just a guilty as the press. If not more so, because it’s his name that’s lending them the appearance authority — which is what they pay him for. That’s why I’m wondering if he or Clifton are aware. And I’ll be waiting for a response from both…I’m sure someone’s written to Hoagland by now.
August 26th, 2008 at 11:23 am
Yeah, I don’t know what the solution is — maybe self-publishing. Especially as new technologies make it easier. Lulu is very convenient, and losing some of it’s stigma.
In the end it’s all about the illusion of authority. Whether true or not, a press gives a book the appearance of having been vetted. But if you can establish your legitimacy on your own, there’s no reason not to self-publish.
August 27th, 2008 at 10:50 am
Re: The word “corruption” - perhaps tangential, but I like the way “rupture” has the same root as corruption - abrupt, rupture, interrupt - reminds me of the old saying, Chinese I believe - no, I think it’s the same character for both words in Chinese - “crisis” and “opportunity” - I like the way in English “corruption” and “opportunity” are sort of two faces of the same word - meaning, well, in rooting out corruption, you create an opportunity for different ways of doing things - such as establishing a career as a poet in the US - outside of academia…just something to think about…corruptunity? Okay, I’ll stop now while I’m ahead…
August 31st, 2008 at 12:33 pm
I don’t know that slamming Hoagland as a “PoBiz whore ” who will sell out for another “tick on his resume” is accurate or constructive.
Surely, yes, if Hoagland is aware of the behavior of presses like CPR, then his behavior is despicable. But I sincerely doubt he’s all that aware: CPR asked him to judge, not the other way around. Hoagland doesn’t need to judge poetry contests - his reputation as a poet is secure. People want him to participate because his name is the one that draws attention - he’s not actually gaining anything from it, and surely understands that he risks his reputation every time he gets involved with a contest. Hoagland is a lot of things, but stupid is not one them.
For the record, I don’t think he’s a PoBiz whore at all. I think he’s talented, skilled, and excited about poetry. I think he still has energy left to get excited about getting other people excited about poetry, and that’s a wonderful thing to see.
And I think it should also be noted that Lucille Clifton, according to the CPR website, has dropped out of the judging for the 2008 contest.
September 10th, 2008 at 4:31 am
Alan Cordle is as unethical as they get. He is a little vicious, mean-spirited toady who actually married his professor, Kathleen Halme, at least according to a recent post by one Janet Holmes. The guy’s credibility is shot. Foetry was an insignificant personal vedetta concocted by Cordle to intimidate contest to choose his wifw who was unable to win anything.
September 11th, 2008 at 8:23 am
Rachel,
maybe you’re right . . .
but shouldn’t the judges of these book contests actually read the entries, all of them? It’s fraudulent to say that Hoagland (or anybody else) has judged this contest when he has read at most ten of the mss. sent in . . .
Admittedly I’m bitter because over the years I submitted books to dozens and dozens of these
competitions and none of them published me . . .
okay, so maybe you’re right: maybe he’s not a “Po-Biz whore,”
maybe the biz itself is a whore, the Po-Biz is a whorish enterprise . . .
October 18th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Over the years I’ve enjoyed a lot of Bill Knott’s poetry, so I should probably qualify my judgement that a good poet should be a lot more careful with words than Knott has been here. What purpose do overblown insults serve? Wouldn’t it be better to withhold opinion at least until both sides of the dispute have been heard? No doubt some publishers are and unethical. But so are some poets. I know nothing of Ms. Brown or the Cider Press Review, so I express no opinion. But about language I DO know something and remind you that name-calling tends to splatter the slinger.